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Auricular Confession and Popish Nunneries, by William Hogan

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Cardinal Dolan rejects call for Gov. Cuomo’s excommunication over new abortion law

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  • Abortion, Cardinal Dolan, and excommunication: A response to Dr. Peters – Catholic World Report.
  • Excommunication, And The Duty of All Men To Believe, Weighed in The Balance.

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Sincerely, David Theisen. Peters, I am no canon lawyer, but I cannot think that a mother aborting her own baby is anything but gravely evil. An automatic excommunication seems a just penalty and a legitimate call to repentance. Just my view from the trenches. Clearly, to abrogate such a penalty is to recognize that the penalty applied to these individuals prior to the abrogation.

So your example provides clear evidence that such a penalty can apply to massive numbers of people. Your core argument in your response comes down to equating the fate of the abortion excommunications to that of Baltimore. Your argument is essentially that the number of transgressions would be so large that the Church would HAVE to abrogate the penalty.

Your contention that the Church may abrogate these in the future does not presently nullify the penalty. I often wonder how the laity is made aware of church teaching if they are absent from the sacraments? The world seems to be up side down on religion and politics. Should we excommunicate a high profile politician like Governor Cuomo or direct our efforts to the ignorant masses who could be excommunicated? Almost seem like an impossible task.

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  7. What does the church say? Instead the opportunity was lost. Sad and disappointing. Again, thank you, Dr. Miller for your charity and clarity. When the opposition hurls insults, they are letting you know that they are not confident in their argument. It goes without saying that the intellect and will must be in accord when an action is taken. If either of those is impaired, Canon does not apply.

    However, the crime is still a crime and should be brought to the confessor for evaluation. Dolan could have easily explained this but chose not to. He knows better. He has confused so many by his inclusion of the Gay Pride people in the parade. No double talk can excuse this. Thanks Monica Migliorino Miller for clarification on canon Her required decision makes her the primary active participant. Otherwise I agree with Peters on most issues regarding the current crisis.

    What Dolan is saying to the author and others of her value system is what the Episcopalians said for 25 years in their run up to their lavender priests take over. We are moving beyond that…and finding a way forward. Yes, Dr. Miller, this is a very fine article. I am not a canon lawyer or anything close. I write from Milwaukee where Cardinal Dolan was for a time. He came on the scandal of Archbishop Weakland.

    It was often said by many people that it was easy to know when Dolan was lying….. Peters is correct and it ought to be remembered that even a laete sententiae penalty cant occur unless you know the penalty is attached to an abortion. Powers and principalities are at play beyond your influence. Therefore, make peace, love one another, and live as Christian witnesses in charity and humility. Miller and Dr. Pregnancy equals grave inconvenience is a supposition.

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    Nevertheless in practice he is apparently correct. Bishop Edward B. That if true would render universal Laetae Sententiae excommunication inapplicable. And Dr Peters does add that abortion remains intrinsically evil and as such subject to serious sin.

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    Your quotes would tend to support Miller, not Peters. But Peters position is absolutist, and that all women have an affirmative defense, such that it is impossible that they would incur excommunication. The extended of faculties to lift the excommunications whether by the ordinary or by the pope would tend to indicate that many bishops did not consider it an impossibility, unless Peters wishes to argue that those actions were taken with the abortionists as their primary object.

    EU4 Explaining Permanent Curia & Excommunicate Anyone

    A conclusion that would mean, in fact, no one at all is even possibly affected by this excommunication. Thomas the adage a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich is analogous here to a team of NYC lawyers [or a team of skilled canon lawyers] can convict a ham sandwich. Any law civil or canon is as viable as the willingness to prosecute. In this instance a woman in many instances, not all suffering hardship. My concern are the politicians many Catholic who promote abortion and the Hierarchy who remain silent and refuse to confer a public sanction.

    In the instance of Gov Cuomo a sanction issued by Cardinal Dolan or Bishop Scharfenberger assures laity we take serious sin seriously and is likely more of a deterrent. Regarding, Gov. Cuomo, contra Peters, I think he not only should, but also can be excommunicated for his actions. Thanks Thomas for explaining your response. The issue I point out is, in practice how can we determine which women have incurred excommunication?

    If a woman enters the confessional and confessed her abortion adding she had concern would that suffice to remove sentence of excommunication and substantially mitigate responsibility according to how the codes are written? My position is no regarding serious sin and questionable regarding excommunication although that seems to disagree with what the code says. As a universal proposition it is clearly incorrect.

    To an extent the disagreement is a bit like arguing over the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. If there is a technicality in Canon Law that supports Cd. Cuomo reportedly did, reveled in the passage of the hideous New York abortion law will not be ex-communicated, who will be? Michael the laetae sententiae [excommunication] penalty lists exception exclusively for the woman who aborts. Insofar as those who engage in performing the abortion they are under penalty of excommunication as explicitly stated by canon law. This is where I believe Dr Peters is well off track. Clearly the physicians,nurses,technicians who perform the abortion are under penalty. That in my estimation would include Gov Andrew Cuomo as directly complicit in a bill to kill infants pre natal and post natal. Cardinal Dolan is completely derelict in upholding Catholic doctrine regarding the protection of human life.

    However, Canon n. If there were any doubt as to automatic penalty Cardinal Dolan can punish the Gov with an inflicted penalty of excommunication. While I am sure the author is correct from a legal standpoint, it has little bearing on Cdl. Sounds old fashioned but entirely justified. There should be no doubt among the faithful the seriousness of this matter. How were two girls aged 17 excommunicated latae sententiae for the canonical crime of abortion?

    A person can be subject to ecclesiastical penalties from age 16 onwards c. Canon In addition, people incur canonical penalties for crimes, not sins; all crimes are sins, but not all sins are crimes. Abortion is both a sin and a crime. And since the concept of reserved sins no longer exists in the Latin Church, it is inapplicable to the case of these two girls. While I agree with Dr. Canon law is human. Thus, excommunication is an organizational penalty of the earthly Church. This discussion oddly juxtaposes God and legalism. The excommunication penalty is reasonable as an organizational penalty.

    But: 1. Those in authority are obligated to spread knowledge of this in a manner that ignorance is not a credible defense. It is today. If excommunication is the penalty, the remedy for reversal must be reasonable. Vengeance belongs to the Lord, not the Catholic Church. We should not treat an abortion procurer the first time, anyway with less charity than all manner of cause-celebre hardened criminals. A general comment about abortion: the woman is both sinner and victim. She violates the Fifth Commandment, but also harms something that is, at that moment, a part of her. All comments posted at Catholic World Report are moderated.